catholicsphere

The following is a short dialogue I had with another Christian back in 1999.

My comments appear in a normal font face, the other person’s comments appear in italics.

NOTE:  In many instances of this dialogue, I used the term “Catholic Christian.”  Some may question the usage of this as redundant, and I would agree. However, it was my desire to reinforce the idea that Catholics are certainly Christians.

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…a Christian is a follower of  Jesus Christ and comes under His authority, not the Pope’s.

A Catholic Christian is a follower of Christ Jesus as well and comes under His authority. Any denial or repudiation of that fact is only by a person who lacks understanding of the Catholic Christian faith.

A Christian prays to God and reverences God, not Mary and not the saints.

A Catholic Christian prays to God in reverence, truth and love. A Catholic Christian prays for ALL his brothers and sisters, and asks for their prayers in return, no matter whether they are in this life or the next.

The dulia and latria stuff doesn’t cut it because you know in your mind that you aren’t saying, “okay, right now I’m giving dulia to this and this and latria only to this but now let me put it in hyper dulia and away we go….”.

What “honor” shall I give to my father and mother (as the commandment of God states), if I cannot discern honor (”dulia”) and worship (”latria”)?

A Christian believes that Christ’s atonement is sufficient, done one time for all time.

A Catholic Christian believes that Christ’s atonement is sufficient, and the grace of that atonement can bring fulfillment of the call “to be holy and blameless” [cf Eph 1:4], so that we may “live a life worthy of the calling to which we have been called.”[Eph 4:1], and be “imitators of God”[Eph 5:1]

A Christian doesn’t fear “purgatory” because we have passed from death to life and are not under condemnation.

A Catholic Christian believes that “we have become partners of Christ if only we hold the beginning of the reality firm until the end.”[Heb 3:14]  And, knows that we shall not enter “God’s rest” if we disobey  [cf Heb 4]. We believe that through the consuming fire of God [cf Heb 12:29], which will purge the unrighteous works of the righteous man, we will be “made perfect” [cf Heb 12:23].

Furthermore, we believe that we have not yet taken possession of our inheritance [cf Eph 1:14], but “are receiving the unshakable kingdom” [cf Heb 12:28], and therefore, “we must consider to how rouse one another [and ourselves] to good works” [Heb 10:24], for we know that doing good and sharing what we have is pleasing to God [cf Heb 13:16].

A Christian confesses their sins to God, who is the ONLY one capable of forgiving sins because the sin is against God, not the priest and not the bishop.

A Catholic Christian believes that God “gave authority to men” [cf.Mt 9:8, 10:1, 16:18-19, 18:18; Mk 6:7; Lk 9:1, 10:19 Jn 20:23; 2 Cor 10:8, 13:10; 3 Jn 1:9], and that this authority is His, exercised through them. And, in particular, God gave the authority to forgive sins [cf. Jn 20:23].

I cannot forgive you sleeping with my neighbor’s wife; it isn’t possible.

Yet, an offense against my neighbor is ultimately an offense against God, and thus God can forgive such a sin; even through those He has given authority.

A Christian cannot buy their way out of “purgatory” which is fictional and God cannot be bought for entrance into heaven.

A Catholic Christian would agree that one cannot buy their way out of Purgatory, or into Heaven.

A Christian doesn’t get baptized to be saved because nothing we do can make us saved or add to the grace of God which is the only way we become saved.

A Catholic Christian believes that they are “saved” by the redeeming sacrifice of Christ Jesus. The Catholic Christian believes they are joined to the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus through baptism [cf. Rom 6:3-11], and that their baptism “into His death” brings about the “forgiveness of sins” and reception of the Holy Spirit [cf. Acts 2:38].

A Christian doesn’t call any religious leader “Father” because there is one Father, who is in heaven.

A Catholic Christian knows that God is our Father, and we are His children. And, a Catholic Christian also knows that Stephen testified to Abraham as “our father” [Acts 7:2], and Paul called Abraham the “father of all of us”, [Rom 4:11-12; 16], (as does James [cf. Jas 2:21]) and that even he, Paul, “became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. [1 Cor 4:15].

Shall we say that this is blasphemy and seeks to replace God with mere men? No, indeed not! But, it is explained, and the Catholic Christian understands,…”for you know how, like a father with his children, we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you” [1 Thess 2:11]

A Christian doesn’t observe the Lord’s Supper to help with their salvation; it is a memorial.

A Catholic Christian heeds the words of our Lord when He says “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.” [John 6:53-56]

A Catholic Christian recognizes that the cup and bread are a participation of the very blood and body of Christ Jesus. [cf1 Cor 10:16]; “For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.”[1 Cor 11:29]

A Christian doesn’t bow the knee to any man like a priest or a pope or kiss anyone’s feet or gawdy rings because we worship Jesus Christ, who was poor and had nowhere to lay His head.

A Catholic Christian would agree that we are to worship Christ Jesus, and would never consider worship of any man; however, a Catholic Christian may honor a man whom God has honored by bestowing rich spiritual blessings upon him, and whom has answered the calling to be a servant of God.

A Christian lives out the Christian faith, not the Catholic faith.

A Catholic Christian recognizes the two as synonymous.

A Christian doesn’t constantly recrucify and reoffer Christ as a sacrifice because He is risen and without the shedding of BLOOD, their is no remission of sins. Your mass and Eucharistic ritual is of no effect because there is no shedding of blood - it is finished.

A Catholic Christian does not believe Christ is recrucified. On the contrary, a Catholic Christian believes that by the power of Christ and the Holy Spirit, the Lord’s Supper makes the one sacrifice of the cross present to every one who comes to the Lord’s table, in every generation.

A Catholic Christian believes that this was the basis for which Christ Jesus implemented this heavenly meal.

A Christian doesn’t require the priesthood because it was abolished when the veil was torn. I can go boldly to the throne room of God and make my petitions.

A Catholic Christian knows that we “are being built into a holy priesthood” [1 Pet 2:5], and that we may “confidently approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and to find grace for timely help.”[Heb 4:16], but also understands
that the gifts of the Spirit are divided as He sees fit, and that not all were given the same gifts. These gifts were given to some for the good of the whole Body of Christ. [cf. 1 Cor 12].

Salvation is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not a group effort.

A Catholic Christian knows that salvation is based upon one’s own cooperation with grace, which is help from God, to live His commands of love, and faith, the goal of which is “salvation of your souls” [1 Pet 1:9]; but also knows that the Church is the Body of Christ, and those who are in His Body are “in Christ.”

I think you get the general picture of where I stand.

Actually, I think I do and it doesn’t seem to be Scripture-based.

There’s nothing you can tell me from your theologians (who don’t agree on anything)

Who don’t agree on anything? If I were to show you theologians who agree, would it change your opinion?

and your “infallible” popes (who contradict each other and overturn each others decisions and edicts - really infallible)

Perhaps you could offer some examples of this [with citations]? It seems I may have missed these.

that will make me turn from  Christ the risen Savior to the christ  you keep hanging on a cross.

Well, I certainly wouldn’t want you to turn from Christ Jesus, but, considering all you’ve written, I’m wondering whether you’ve got your own “Christ” and other Christians have theirs, and Catholics, in the Tradition of the Apostles and prophets have theirs. (Not that there is more than one, of course!)

I have the whole truth contained in God’s Word so I don’t need anything else.

I presume that you consider “God’s Word” to be the Bible. Well, I believe Christ Jesus to be God’s Word [Jn 1:1;14]; and I believe the Bible to be the word of God, as I do “every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.”

I won’t repeat over and over again “prayers” that are written down and repetitious,

Well, I know that I sometimes prefer to pray as Christ Jesus taught us. “Our Father….”

I don’t need Mary to appease Jesus Christ because she’s as dead as every other human that’s ever died,

I guess the resurrection of the dead is a lie. Or perhaps you don’t believe that Christ really died and rose, and that everyone who dies “in Christ” is raised to new life with Him?

I don’t need to confess my sins to a fallible human

So, then, they shall not be able to excercise, in your life, the power of God given to them.

and sin is sin is sin - nothing venial or mortal.

I guess that St. John was wrong when he said: “If any one sees his brother committing that is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.” [1 John 5:16-17]

Nowhere in Scripture, never intimated. In Catholicism, looking at a beautiful women and thinking things is venial; committing
adultery with her is probably mortal. Christ said even if you lust with your eyes, you’ve committed adultery;

Looking at beautiful women and “thinking things” CAN BE mortal, if one persists in that; however, it may also be venial. Though, I think this is not the time or place to discuss that distinction particularly; as I believe there are much more pressing matters at hand.

there is no distinction between sin. One sin isn’t lighter or not as worse as another - they all have the same weight
with God because it is disobedience against Him and Him alone.

Indeed, sin is disobedience, and we should strive to “sin no more”, so that we should be found blameless before the Lord. However, St John in particular makes the distinction - unless, of course, we should throw that book or verses out.

There’s freedom in Christ, not dictatorship and oppression.

Indeed, I have freedom in Christ; but is that freedom the freedom to to what I want, or is it the freedom to do what Christ wants - because He certainly knows better than I what is best for me.

I don’t think Catholicism is any different [from Jehovah's Witness and Mormonism] They’re cultish in my opinion and
the opinion of millions of others so don’t single me out.

Should we base this on majority vote? I think the billion Catholic Christians would overrule the 400-500 million Protestant Christians. (BTW, notice how I consider you Christian, despite your lack of charity in considering me the same.)

Mary is the focus, tradition is the focus,

Hmm….wondering why the Mass focus’ on Christ Jesus and the Scriptures then, with hardly a mention of Mary.

My opinion and my conviction.

Well, at least you admit it’s your “opinion.” I just wish that you would base your “opinion” on facts, and not make slanderous attacks.