Comments on: Eternal Insecurity http://blog.catholicsphere.com/2007/04/27/eternal-insecurity.html Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:09:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Matt http://blog.catholicsphere.com/2007/04/27/eternal-insecurity.html#comment-7528 Matt Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:38:24 +0000 http://blog.catholicsphere.com/2007/04/27/eternal-insecurity.html#comment-7528 Thanks for your comments, Suzy. I can absolutely sense the heart and Spirit in which you have made them. I want to say upfront that the purpose of my entry, and my reply here, is by no means intended to <i>discourage</i> you, or anyone, from the joy found in Christ. Rather it is to <i>encourage</i> folks to examine what they believe, why they believe it, and move deeper. That said ... I have attended churches in the past -- although not been a member, per se -- that have also taught eternal security. I've heard something along the lines of your pastor's teaching. It still seemed problematic to me because of what I've been taught about God's love and freedom (i.e. free will). I know that not all churches teach that we have "free will", but I'll leave that particular discussion out of the mix at present, even though it may be quite relevant to the matter. One of the things I find problematic is, in order for it to be true that God holds us eternally in His hand, that He would do so against our will. If we should desire to "walk away", does He then force us to remain? How loving would that be to require that we remain where we do not want to be. (Although, it seems crazy to those of us who are believers that anyone would <i>not</i> want to be cradled in God's hands! It is nonetheless a possibility. Look at the history of Israel in the Scriptures; or of the Prodigal Son. Praise God that He is merciful and forgives us our faults even if we do turn away.) What of those who do not return, either because they do not desire to, or because their "time's up? Peace of Christ be with you! Thanks for your comments, Suzy. I can absolutely sense the heart and Spirit in which you have made them.

I want to say upfront that the purpose of my entry, and my reply here, is by no means intended to discourage you, or anyone, from the joy found in Christ. Rather it is to encourage folks to examine what they believe, why they believe it, and move deeper.

That said …

I have attended churches in the past — although not been a member, per se — that have also taught eternal security. I’ve heard something along the lines of your pastor’s teaching. It still seemed problematic to me because of what I’ve been taught about God’s love and freedom (i.e. free will).

I know that not all churches teach that we have “free will”, but I’ll leave that particular discussion out of the mix at present, even though it may be quite relevant to the matter.

One of the things I find problematic is, in order for it to be true that God holds us eternally in His hand, that He would do so against our will. If we should desire to “walk away”, does He then force us to remain? How loving would that be to require that we remain where we do not want to be.

(Although, it seems crazy to those of us who are believers that anyone would not want to be cradled in God’s hands! It is nonetheless a possibility. Look at the history of Israel in the Scriptures; or of the Prodigal Son. Praise God that He is merciful and forgives us our faults even if we do turn away.)

What of those who do not return, either because they do not desire to, or because their “time’s up?

Peace of Christ be with you!

]]> By: Suzy Q http://blog.catholicsphere.com/2007/04/27/eternal-insecurity.html#comment-7527 Suzy Q Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:53:22 +0000 http://blog.catholicsphere.com/2007/04/27/eternal-insecurity.html#comment-7527 This is interesting to me for so many reasons. I was raised in a "non-denominational" church. We were taught that "once saved always saved" people and "predestination" people were crazy but we were never really taught why. Fast forward to adulthood and I have 2 younger brothers who both made decisions to follow Christ as children and lived it through high school and have now both made a conscious decision as adults to doubt there is a HIGHER POWER and to live as they please. I now attend a church that teaches eternal security. I'm still not sure exactly where I stand. But our pastor did describe it in an interesting way a couple of weeks ago. These are his words, not mine. He drew a mental picture of God taking each person who makes a commitment to follow him (i.e. says the sinner's prayer) and He places them in the palm of His hand. I don't think any of us would argue that God does this. At this point, nothing can happen to me, the saved individual that He did not allow, no? Now, the pastor continued by asking this question: "Do we honestly believe that anyone/anything whatsoever could literally remove us from the hand of God? From His protection and covering?" I guess that anyone/anything would have to include ourselves as well. Anyway, that gave me something to think about. The older I get, the more times I read the Bible, the more I see God being in control and the less credit I am inclined to give us mortal goofballs down here for really, truly being the ones to muck things up. This is interesting to me for so many reasons. I was raised in a “non-denominational” church. We were taught that “once saved always saved” people and “predestination” people were crazy but we were never really taught why. Fast forward to adulthood and I have 2 younger brothers who both made decisions to follow Christ as children and lived it through high school and have now both made a conscious decision as adults to doubt there is a HIGHER POWER and to live as they please. I now attend a church that teaches eternal security. I’m still not sure exactly where I stand. But our pastor did describe it in an interesting way a couple of weeks ago. These are his words, not mine. He drew a mental picture of God taking each person who makes a commitment to follow him (i.e. says the sinner’s prayer) and He places them in the palm of His hand. I don’t think any of us would argue that God does this. At this point, nothing can happen to me, the saved individual that He did not allow, no? Now, the pastor continued by asking this question: “Do we honestly believe that anyone/anything whatsoever could literally remove us from the hand of God? From His protection and covering?” I guess that anyone/anything would have to include ourselves as well.
Anyway, that gave me something to think about. The older I get, the more times I read the Bible, the more I see God being in control and the less credit I am inclined to give us mortal goofballs down here for really, truly being the ones to muck things up.

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